Welcome
Hello and welcome.
As a wargamer, model maker, history buff, train nerd and general information sponge, I have often been frustrated at the lack of information to be found online about particular topics of interest. Old railway timetables, for instance, or more importantly for the purposes of this blog, details of the intricate system of vehicle markings used by the British army during the Second World War.
While this information does exist, it's often incomplete or inaccessible. Google searches turn up years-old forum threads, full of dead links to sorely-missed websites, or recommendations for books that have been out of print for thirty years, the only remaining extant copies lying forgotten in attics, waiting to be thrown out by exasperated relatives when their owners eventually pass away.
As such, this is an attempt to collate and digitise some of this information, to make it well presented and easily accessible, and to hopefully alleviate some of the frustration felt by the amateur historian.
This page is very much a work in progress, but I hope there are people out there to whom it will prove useful.
Please use the menu to the left to navigate through the site.
I have Bellis, but these color images are great, thanks. Any info on markings of the 79th Armoured Division funnies, please?
ReplyDeleteI'll see what I can do!
DeleteI've got a couple of books in the post, and hopefully they'll have some info.
Great site, good info. Appreciate the work!
ReplyDeleteGreat work! Thanks!
ReplyDeleteVery good, indeed!!! Thanks for the material and research....
ReplyDeleteAnd thank you for the link on your blog!
DeleteExcellent piece of work. If you need any help, I offer my services.
ReplyDeleteA very useful resource, especially for those unfamiliar with the conventions of the British Army during the War. I'd like to suggest a couple of points for inclusion:
ReplyDelete1. 4th Armoured Brigade in NW Europe had a blue over green AoS badge (I can back this up with pictures if there is somewhere you can suggest to send them). Also, 3 CLY is shown as the 2nd senior regiment in the brigade - which is true to the end of July 1944 - but from August the unit became 3rd/4th CLY after amalgamating with 4 CLY.
2. 22nd Armorued Brigade, despite being part of 7th Armorued Division, sometimes wore its own badge, as well as the 7AD badge. It was a stags head in red on a white square.
3. AoS badges varied from UK practice during some periods of the Desert War The additions to Peter Hodge's book but Michael Taylor describe it, though they are difficult to follow, and they are also covered in Malcolm Bellis' 'Desert tracks', handily laid out chronologically, but only for tank units.
4. It would likely only confuse, but there are a wealth of exceptions to the rules. 3 CLY, for example, when they were fighting in the western desert should have been wearing yellow tac markings. This would not have shown on sand coloured tanks, so they adapted it to a green symbol with a yellow outline. This was retained through Sicily and Italy, but reverted to yellow in NW Europe.
5. Though you correctly describe tank names as usually conforming to squadron letters, starting A, B, C, it is worth noting that many units had their own variation. For example, RTR regiments often adopted names corresponding to their number - 5RTR's started with E, 7 RTR started with G etc.
Hope this is helpful
Some very useful info there, thanks! I'm away at the moment but once I'm back at home I'll see about acting on it.
DeleteCould you drop me an email re: the 4th AB AoS markings? gbeverley1987@gmail.com
This really is a fantastic resource which you've clearly put a huge amount of work into. Really impressive.
ReplyDeleteHope you don't mind me chipping in with a couple of points. There are a couple of errors on the composition timeline for 7th Armoured Division '44-'45. The first one concerns seniority within 22nd Armoured Brigade. You correctly show that 5th Skins replaced 4 CLY at the end of July '44, however due to them being cavalry and therefore senior to the Royal Tank Regiment, they became the senior regiment in the brigade. As a result 1 RTR became the second regiment and 5 RTR became the junior.
The other point concerns the Armoured Recce Regiment - 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars - it seems a shame not to use their full title when you have for all the others.
It might actually be worth doing a separate chart for 7th Armoured as they used a fairly unique system of markings. 22nd Armd Bde used a combined red stag's head on white above the AOS on the offside, with the Div Sign on the nearside. The rest of the division used a single combined Div/AOS consisting of the Red Rat on a white background above the AOS.
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Alex
Thanks for the feedback!
DeleteI realised after posting the armoured division timeline that I'd forgotten to account for seniority when regiments moved between brigades, and you're not the first to point it out, so I'll get it updated ASAP.
The 7th Armd Div/22nd Armd Bde markings are indeed a special case worthy of their own page. I'm planning to do separate diagrams for all the armoured divisions like I've done for the 79th, so stay tuned!